Curse

craigrs84 · Oct 30, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

A/D

Have the basic idea down, needs refinement.

Signet of Pious Restraint
<Enchantment/Hex>
Beguiling Haze
Golden Phoenix Strike/Black Spider Strike
Trampling Ox
Falling Lotus Strike
Twisting Fangs
Rez

-OR-

Signet of Pious Restraint
Way of the Lotus/Attacker's Insight
Beguiling Haze
Golden Fox Strike
Wild Strike
Twisting Fangs
Critical Strike
Rez

-OR-

Signet of Pious Restraint
Way of the Lotus/Attacker's Insight
Beguiling Haze
Golden Fox Strike
Wild Strike
Death Blossom
<Optional>
Rez

Bobby2 · Oct 30, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Scrap the last one, any build without Deep Wound needs to be buried, the first one you posted is easily the best

Looks like...

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:A/D_Haze_Gank

SoPR for Trampling over HotO is nice enough, though with stuff like Whirling Charge/Harrier's Haste competing, I doubt it's worth the slot

wind fire and ice · Oct 30, 2008, 07:32 PM // 19:32

First is best,the idea isnt that great though,a simple stance->condition remove could make you useless for a good while.

Super Igor · Oct 30, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

first one is kinda OK, might need attacker's insight though, best enchie for it.

X Cytherea X · Nov 03, 2008, 01:14 AM // 01:14

you waste 2 seconds of the daze if you knockdown the target. that's redundant.

do this...

signet of pious restraint
vow of piety <--cheap 1/4 ench for the lol
beguiling haze
golden lotus strike
golden fang strike
death blossom <-- do this twice!
golden phoenix strike
rez

or this...

signet of pious restraint
enduring toxin <--cheap 1/4 hex for the lol
beguiling haze
black lotus strike
jungle strike <-- +dmg from the cripple
twisting fangs
malicious strike
rez

keep sinning.

Bobby2 · Nov 03, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

you waste 2 seconds of the daze if you knockdown the target. that's redundant.

wat

/12chars

X Cytherea X · Nov 03, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

what's the point of dazing if you're gonna kd anyway

Bobby2 · Nov 03, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Daze isn't a guarantee to interrupt everything, 1/4 casts will come through pretty often, so 2 sec of -absolutely- nothing is still pretty hawt

nor does Daze snare stuff down

PS on good bars there is no room for 'for the lol' skillz

EDIT to response: no

X Cytherea X · Nov 03, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

the 2 builds i suggested (put together completely in my head) are better than all 3 in the OP tbh. i tried to stick to his concept tho (which at its core isnt too great to begin with)

X Cytherea X · Nov 04, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

they're better in every way, including e-management in the lead attack (logical cuz u do BH which is expensive), deepwound and damage.

in the OP, 1st has kd and daze which is redundant, 2nd has an alternate dual for e-management which wastes a slot, 3rd is too weak.

Tyla · Nov 04, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

what's the point of dazing if you're gonna kd anyway

It adds the element of additional disruption to the build. Put it this way, a Monk won't get a Guardian off simply because the fact that when you shadowstep, it interrupts and dazes leaving that spot for a 2s cast Guardian easy to disrupt, moreso with additional people. It's possible to get a Guardian up without on even a 4 attack skill chain, however. It also snares your target and disallows them to use anything but certain skills; such as Endure Pain, Shield Bash and various stances. Either way, there's not much you could have used in that slot otherwise. For an O-D-O-D chain you're restricted to using HoTO or Trampling, which means you've got to hope your targets aren't bunched with HoTO and use your elite slot up with Trampling. Another one is the fact that you've got one more choice: Hex and enchantment, which leaves your chain even more open to breaking, but allows more power in the chain (Twisting - BoS).

Oh, and your chains are pretty bad. For one, niether has an IAS. An IAS accelerates the rate of your kill and reduces the chance of a failed kill, and also helps your own disruption. Without it, they have a higher chance of getting their skills off, for example, if they were on their staff set and got a HCT on their Guardian that's well timed mid-attack, your chain would be took apart unless you miraculously pop all 7 attacks through that Guardian. With a knockdown, the chances of that happening fall dramatically, and you will kill more efficiently. Keep in mind that things such as Patient Spirit may come into this equation, as that can just as easily kill your chain. I haven't even took into account outside professions either deliberately by the way.

X Cytherea X · Nov 04, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

fair enough. still feels a bit weird.

Super Igor · Nov 04, 2008, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

the 2 builds i suggested (put together completely in my head) are better than all 3 in the OP tbh. i tried to stick to his concept tho (which at its core isnt too great to begin with)

I think you should really sort your ego bubble issues out dude. Builds youve posted are pretty bad because they dont have a good ias, they dont have kd and their damage isnt enough, at all. Also your statements are pretty terrible if you ask me, what do you mean kd is redundant, lolwut, 2 second of total shutdown is pretty hot daze or not.

Also, OP first build is pretty fine tbh other two are pretty bad but not worse than youre stuff.

X Cytherea X · Nov 04, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

- the OP doesnt have an IAS either.
- an IAS doesnt fit anyway, if you want 4 attack skills, bh, res, sopr, ench/hex.
- the damage of the builds i posted are pretty much the same or greater than the OP...
- ... but of course you're too lazy to do the math and will just disagree automatically.
- i already said i was sticking to the OP's concept.
- if you're running kd might as well not daze and bring a better elite.
- if you're running daze might as well not kd and bring more damage.
- although if you reeeally want to bring both for "total shutdown" i'll agree it doesnt hurt.
- you have your own issues to sort out... "dudes".

Super Igor · Nov 04, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

- the OP doesnt have an IAS either.
- an IAS doesnt fit anyway, if you want 4 attack skills, bh, res, sopr, ench/hex.

Golden Phoenix, Trampling, Spider, Twisting, Insight, BH, Signet, Res seems like the best idea to me.

Quote:

- if you're running kd might as well not daze and bring a better elite.
- if you're running daze might as well not kd and bring more damage.

KD doesnt go off right away and doesnt last for the full spike on other hand disables your target for 2 seconds completely adding more disruption to the build + triggers spider, having both gives your target double pain.

Quote:

- you have your own issues to sort out... "dudes".

Like?

X Cytherea X · Nov 05, 2008, 12:40 AM // 00:40

a 5 hit combo (including 2 death blossoms, the 2nd most damaging dual) on a crippled, dazed, deepwounded target is no joke. aaand this combo has a shorter cooldown and can function while waiting for BH and SOPR to recharge. 10secs as opposed to 20secs (because the OP's version is entirely dependent on the cripple) thus it will net u way moar damage overall.

[signet of pious restraint][vow of piety][beguiling haze][golden lotus strike][golden fang strike][death blossom][golden phoenix strike][resurrection signet]

you can also spam cripple and heal a bit by doing vop->sopr (like if you're hexed or blinded for example, do something useful in the meantime).

there's nothing really wrong with the OP's first build + insight though. i just find this more interesting.

Bobby2 · Nov 05, 2008, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Get something better than Vow of Piety, FGJ!.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Another one is the fact that you've got one more choice: Hex and enchantment, which leaves your chain even more open to breaking, but allows more power in the chain (Twisting - BoS).

You could go Ench based for GSS and GPS.

But yeah, GSS...

Super Igor · Nov 05, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

[build prof=A/D box dagger=11+1+1 crit=12+1 wind=6][grenth's fingers][golden skull strike][pious fury][trampling ox][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs][dash][resurrection signet][/build] is good imo.

X Cytherea X · Nov 05, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

^not bad, apart from needing 35 energy before u reach falling lotus

there's a version of that with insight,gss,tf,gps,bos

Super Igor · Nov 05, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Well, you should pre-cast grenth's fingers so your spike would cost 25e now.

Also:
[build prof=A/D box dagger=11+1+1 crit=12+1 wind=6][attacker's insight][whirling charge][golden skull strike][twisting fangs][golden phoenix strike][blades of steel][assassin's remedy][resurrection signet][/build]

^this? It might be better actually although it lacks kd and doesnt have good enough ims and snare.